what makes a car 'vintage'?

im familiar with vintage racing and vintage cars that ive seen locally and nationally, but was curious, what is the definition of a vintage car? does it have to be european and a certain age? does it have to have a notable history? what does 'vintage' actually mean? thanks for your ideas and opinions, all are welcome.

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Permalink Reply by Louis Galanos on October 16, 2008 at 7:22am
Thanks Robert. I think you have answered the question to my satisfaction. However, you have given me an idea for a book or TV show. The "Automotive Archaeologist". A Colombo type character who is hired by vintage car owners to track the history of the car and produce documents authenticating the car by the end of the book or show. If TV show there could be vintage clips of the car on the track and the legendary drivers who drove the car. Think Hollywood would be interested? :)
Permalink Reply by Doug Bruce on October 29, 2008 at 1:12pm
Good question. Most VMC groups would say that vintage is pre 1972. Then it gets tricky.
What is vintage always gets asked...I mean my 1959 Bugeye did not come with fiberglass body panels...but during the SCCA years, those were allowed as a change to the cars. I think you have vintage and you have what VSCDA calls "Era Correct". My Bugeye is Era Correct which limits the changes that I make to the car. I am running the car as it may have run back in the day, other than safety upgrades. I also think someone can take a car that is perhaps a current street car and make it a vintage race car if they use the SCCA GCR as a guide. There are also plenty of Vintage pony cars, Italian, British, German and other vintage cars that are racers as well. Notable history..no, but having a history is always a plus, just not required.
Doug Bruce
Permalink Reply by Don Gwynne on November 3, 2008 at 8:01am
IMHO, the 1972 cutoff is appropriate. I don't think a 25 year rolling cutoff is in the best interests of the vintage racing sport. Shortly after 1972, SCCA began allowing tube frame cars, fiberglass bodies, etc. that totally ruined it for me. Call me a Luddite, but I don't want to see these Franken-cars running at vintage events, ever.
Permalink Reply by Robert Metcalf on November 4, 2008 at 10:45am
Don, this is why vintage racing clubs, and others, have different classes. I very much appreciate your car and the time, labor, resources, attention to detail and passion you have obviously put into it. I love being around it, looking it over, hearing it run and watching you drive it. But that doesn't mean I have any interest what-so-ever in driving it myself. Why should you restrict what kind of car someone else wants to drive just because you don't want to do it yourself? If someone were to show up at a CVAR race with an ex Al Holbert Porsche 962 or the David Hobbs driven '82 Trans-Am champion Corvette, it would be the star of the weekend. Why would that not be a good thing? Many cars past 1972 have histories just as significant as those before '72. I think not allowing such cars to race is what is not in the best interest of the sport.
Permalink Reply by Don Haines on July 18, 2009 at 9:45pm
I agree. When SCCA allowed tube frame cars, it ruined it for me as well. Back in '68 I bought a '66 Sting Ray from a used car dealer. I knew I was going to race it. I couldnt afford a new Corvette and had owned a 63 Sting Ray. I knew the car and how to "hot rod" it. I was able to drive it daily and make modificaitons as I had the money. I drove the car to SCCA drivers school in Conn. and Marlboro Raceway in MD. I drove the car to every regional race at Marlboro in '69 and won the B Prod regional championship. I only towed the car to Watkins Glen because I was afraid I might break something and wouldn't have a way home.
I continued to upgrade the car and eventually ran it in the IMSA GT series. Of course by then it wasn't streetable. However, had I wanted to, I could have converted it back to the street. The newer cars could never be turned into street cars. And there isn't any class to build up a street car to run competitively in the upper SCCA classes, much less a pro series.
Permalink Reply by 38D on October 30, 2008 at 3:06pm
To me, a vintage race car is one that is over 15 years old & has significant history. So to me, Porsche 956s & 962s of the 80s & early 90s are now vintage in my view. Of course I own a relatively new car (1992 Porsche 964 Cup).
Permalink Reply by Robert Metcalf on October 31, 2008 at 12:53pm
I believe 38D has just affirmed something I said earler. As we all grow older, and younger members join our sport, they want to see and drive the cars with which they identify. In order to accomodate them, we need to bring the cut off dates forward to allow somewhat newer cars to compete. 956s and 962s are great race cars and it seems a shame to see them just sit in garages covered with dust when they could be on the track competing in vintage events. If we do not revise our thinking and begin to allow newer cars on our grids, vintage racing will evenutally wither up and die.
Permalink Reply by 38D on November 1, 2008 at 1:59pm
Yes, I think you have nailed it. While I find the earlier cars really cool, I don't really have much desire to own one. I guess that is because I never saw them race. Now a 917/30, if it wasn't so crazy dangerous, would sure be fun to own.
Permalink Reply by Don Haines on July 18, 2009 at 9:52pm
What is dangerous about a 917/30? Would it simply blow up like a bomb? I mean, like a gun, it wont hurt anyone unless someone pulls the trigger. I was at Talladega when Mark set the closed course record. He was able to drive it safely through the pits and never hurt anyone. :-)
So you can drive a slow or fast(up to you skill level) and have a blast. Nobody says you have to try to beat the original record set by the original racers.
Even if you don't get a 917/30 there are a ton of cars out there to play with.

But if you do get a 917(of any type) drop me a line and I'll be at your front door tomorrow for a chance to drive that sucker ;-)
Permalink Reply by John Repar on October 31, 2008 at 1:09pm
If you own a car that is no longer competitive in it's original class then it would at least be out dated. At what point does it become 'vintage' ? Older cars cannot as a rule compete with newer ones and my experiance has been that their owners don't like being passed. It's up to the organizations to class the cars accordingly so the issue is minimized. I think the spectators like to see a good show and really don't care about age of the cars. Make it shiney and noisey !
Permalink Reply by Brian Findley on January 10, 2009 at 3:26pm
A 25 year old street car is considered to be an antique for licensing purposes in most states. Why wouldn't a 25 year old race car be considered a vintage race car?
As long as the cars are grouped together appropriately on the track, what difference does it really make? I don't think it makes any diffference, and those that want to exclude cars made after 1972 and before 1983 are missing an opportunity to increase memberships and expand grids with their respective organizations.
I have even heard ridiculous statements from one vintage group's officers that allowing newer cars will cause "development costs" to increase drastically, and thus shouldn't be allowed.
I don't think anyone with a 25 year old race car is going to make a wind tunnel owner rich!
The fact of the matter is that any out 25 year old car that is class specific (Formula Ford, Formula B/Atlantic, etc) and can no longer compete with modern cars should be allowed in vintage races.
Maybe these hard core 1972 guys should not be allowed to "vintage race" cars that they own which are still competitive in SCCA races.-lol.
Permalink Reply by Russell Maddock on January 11, 2009 at 2:37am
I always find the USA useage of the term "vintage" a bit confusing because in Britain and the Commonwealth a vintage car is one built between 1919 and 1930.

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